There have been way to many posts asking what people thought about running the Team Green or Pro Circuit jetting specs. In each one of those posts you get people who chime in Yeah it's great for my bike etc. These people vary from elevation to climate & temperature.
Yes people the stock jetting is stock and not perfect and either the PC or TG jetting will improve your engine power & response. How ever you can DO BETTER. However, if you don’t have the time or place to be able to spend the time. Then the PC or TG specs will be better then the stock jetting you’re currently running.
These specs should be considered a starting point. I am no expert at jetting don't get me wrong. I however am smart enough to know that one persons jet spec is not going to work for everyone in every situation. If you're content with a so/so jet then do what you want. No ones twisting your arm. Does Procircuit or Team Green run these jetting specs? Nope. They change them all the time for application. The specs they claim are a Better then stock option that works for a wide range of people.
For those who realize that maybe your jetting could be better then lets go with some basics.
TG & PC specs will help bog issues but not solve it. How ever before you fix your bog you need to get your jetting as close to best as possible.
Things to consider. Where are you located, your elevation, and the climate you're going to be jetting for? Remember if you jet in cold weather and your climate has multiple seasons your jetting will need to change for that climate.
Allot of people like to work on their bike during the winter. If you jet during the cold you will be jetting richer then if you jet during warmer weather.
Humidity also plays a factor. How ever this isn't that big of an issue. I would say the fuel screw would be enough to adjust for humidity.
At higher altitudes, the bike runs richer (so you must jet leaner). The air is less dense at higher altitudes (so you're essentially getting a smaller volume of air than you do near sea level).
At warmer temperatures, the bike runs richer (so you must jet leaner). During the summer, you typically want to use a smaller MJ. During the winter, you may have to go up on the MJ and you may want to raise the jet needle (lower the clip).
At high humidity or when it's wet, the bike also runs richer (so you must jet leaner).
Before you begin. Please check that you have any outside problems that will cause jetting nightmares fixed.
You need a clean airfilter; you need to make sure that the carb boots are tight and not leaking both in and out. You also need to make sure you have no leaks in your exhaust system. If any of these problems exist will through everything off.
So now, We begin. First thing you need to decide. Will you be starting with TG's stock needle recommendation, or will you be running PC's choice of the NCYS needle? From there I can't tell you what to choose. I've used both. I'm still indecisive with what needle I like better. So I can't say what I personally like better. However you need to choose, as it will effect over all jetting. If you’re having problems locating the NCYS needle, You can call Pro Circuit they will be able to give you the Honda part number. If memory serves me right it’s listed in the crf450r parts fiche.
This picture illustrates the areas of throttle movement that are associated with the jetting components
If you chose the stock needle you won’t need to touch it yet. If you chose the ncys needle you need to install it into the carb first. Start with PC’s middle clip position.
Ok, now lets install the pilot and main jet. The pilot jet is generally a 42 pilot its pretty standard but that doesn't mean you're going to use it. The main jet well use PC's start of 170 or TG's start of 175 either or doesn't matter.
Next you need to go buy a few cheap plugs. Cr8e or cr8eb is stock. Before you install a new plug you should see how the bike runs first with your new starting point on the jets. Does it start easier? It should. Keep this in mind also. If you're planning on running race fuel and want to jet to that you need to obviously jet the bike with race fuel in it. Some people because they are putting around and don't want to burn 15dollar a gallon fuel will try and jet to using cheep fuel. This isn't going to get you perfect for when you're running that fuel. Once you're done and want to run the cheep fuel for practice or what ever that will be fine just it won’t be dead on.
Ok, now it starts and runs. Good you need to set your fuel screw for the current jetting ... This is jetting 201. You should already know how to set this. How ever I’m gonna include the how to
Setting the Fuel Screw / Pilot Jet "by Ear"
1. Adjust the idle with the black knob until it is too fast. Then adjust it back down until it is around 1900-2000 RPM or if you don't have a tachometer (see below) until it sounds just a little high.
2. Before you start adjusting, count the turns required to tighten it up lightly.
3. Then start the bike with the slightly elevated idle and turn it out 1/4 turn, 1/2 turn, 3/4 turn and so on until you get to 2 turns. Listen for best RPM and best response to a quick 1/4-turn tweak of the throttle at each position of the fuel screw.
4. Now turn back in 1/4 turn at a time doing the same thing. By now you should have been able to distinguish the speed of the idle and the responsiveness to tweaking the throttle.
5. If it gets better between 3/4 and 3 turns out set it at the best location and leave the rest of the pilot circuit alone.
6. If it is getting better turning it in or is best less than 3/4 turns out, replace the pilot jet with a smaller one and go through this procedure again.
7. If it is getting better as you turn it out or best at more than 3 turns out replace the pilot jet with a larger one and go through this procedure again.
So now you have your starting point YAH. Hey wait isn't this TG and PC specs? Yep. Now you need to figure out your specs.
Your engine should be warm? You now need to install your new plug. Hurry. Don't burn yourself.
Ok, with the new plug in, start the bike and to go to a long hopefully slightly inclined straightaway. Get the bike into the middle of third gear. Then pin it. Holding the throttle wide open until the engine peaks. Don't just ride the rev-limiter? Once it peaks pull in clutch hitting kill switch and let go of the throttle coasting to a stop. Take the bike back to your work area and let it cool. Don't ride it back walk it only. Then remove the spark plug. Now you will read the spark plug. This will allow you to determine how to adjust the main jet. If the plug is sooty/black you're TO rich you need to drop 2 jet sizes down. If its white you're too lean, richen 2 jet size up. If it’s a golden color you're either perfect or close. If you come up with a golden color is it towards the darker or lighter spectrum? Darker you might want try 1 jet leaner. If it’s whiter maybe 1 jet richer. Or you maybe content to stay with that? Remember it maybe possible to get it right on dab smack perfect. If you made any changes you need to run this again with a new plug. If you have a way to clean your plug that'll work also. If you were on the white spectrum [lean] you can reuse that plug again.
Here is a link that is well written and explains plug reading a little better.
http://www.4strokes.com/tech/sparkplg.asp
Ok, you got your main jet correct.. Now we need to adjust the needle. You can do the plug run also but because the needle affects almost all 2/3rds of the entire throttle it's hard to get it accurate. Adjusting the Needle is more a feel adjustment. Needle adjustment is pretty easy. To figure out the needle get on the bike from 1/8th throttle [past idle] to 2/3rds throttle. You need to roll on the throttle listening for popping and response. Try one clip position and then go leaner [moving the clip down] does it pop and feel sluggish. You don't want any backfire and you don't want it to be sluggish. If you run from 1/3rrd throttle to half throttle it should be instant response. This is past the bog of the ac pump because the engine should be high enough in the rams to have enough vacuum. If you have a bog then you're lean. If its sluggish you maybe rich. Search the clip position till you find THE best one.
Ok, You now have your main jet and your needle right. So now you can set your pilot. How ever it's pretty much inevitable that the 42 pilot is close if not correct. There is a chance you may need one more size up. I highly doubt you will need to go lower. So now here is what we do now. One more time adjust your fuel screw correctly. Now going on a straight with an DECLINE or flat all you need to do is open up the throttle go to 50% to 75% open throttle and chop the throttle. If it Pops on decal you're to lean. You can either richen the fuel screw or go up a jet size on the pilot. Congratulations you're done.
By the way people. The incline on the main jet is used to keep a load on the engine i.e. needing more fuel. However you don't want the engine stressed either...
The decline on the pilot is there to once again keep a load on the engine. However these two loads on the incline and decline are different and the incline can't be used on the pilot or the decline used on the main. Remember the fuel screw needs to be adjusted anytime you ride and possibly multiple times a day.
Well, now we have the jetting done. You may or may not have a common issue with bogging. This is a tough issue to address. There has been several posts regarding fixes. The easiest is to replace the leakjet in the bottom of the float bowl with a smaller jet. The lower the number the more fuel that gets squirted into the engine from the accelerator pump. Then there is the option of running an accelerator pump cover. The cover I think is just a gimmick. How ever if you get an accelerator pump cover that has an adjustable leakjet setting should work at least to a degree.
Next is the AP mod. This mod is a wire up of the acell pump-timing rod and basically sets the timing to zero and maximizes the duration of the fuel squirt. This can be done stand alone or with a combination of the cover leakjet/adjustable cover & by changing the accelerator plunger rod. For the people you will need to do a search for Redbeards AP Mod.
On some more issues. There a few companies that have some offerings. ZipTy racing, Tokyo Mods, & Chaplin Kawasaki all have carb mods. The zipty changes the emulsion tube and does the AP mod. With the emulsion tube change will allow the fuel to be atomized into smaller droplets that will allow for better air/fuel mixture allowing better combustion. With the tube and their AP timing will pretty much eliminate bog.
With that being said the carb mod from zipty costs 100 dollars, it also can be done your self. How ever they pretty much do that for a living and to me I’d be happy to spend 100 dollars to get the bog issue and some internal mods from them rather then spend a great deal of time trying to figure out how to clear the bog up. Remember this is not for your basic jetting The above will still need done weather or not you have the carb mod or not.
Good Luck.
Anyone have comments? Please post in the Make/Model forums on whether or not you think I'm right or wrong. Please don't say I'm stupid. I maybe wrong on something.
Yes people the stock jetting is stock and not perfect and either the PC or TG jetting will improve your engine power & response. How ever you can DO BETTER. However, if you don’t have the time or place to be able to spend the time. Then the PC or TG specs will be better then the stock jetting you’re currently running.
These specs should be considered a starting point. I am no expert at jetting don't get me wrong. I however am smart enough to know that one persons jet spec is not going to work for everyone in every situation. If you're content with a so/so jet then do what you want. No ones twisting your arm. Does Procircuit or Team Green run these jetting specs? Nope. They change them all the time for application. The specs they claim are a Better then stock option that works for a wide range of people.
For those who realize that maybe your jetting could be better then lets go with some basics.
TG & PC specs will help bog issues but not solve it. How ever before you fix your bog you need to get your jetting as close to best as possible.
Things to consider. Where are you located, your elevation, and the climate you're going to be jetting for? Remember if you jet in cold weather and your climate has multiple seasons your jetting will need to change for that climate.
Allot of people like to work on their bike during the winter. If you jet during the cold you will be jetting richer then if you jet during warmer weather.
Humidity also plays a factor. How ever this isn't that big of an issue. I would say the fuel screw would be enough to adjust for humidity.
At higher altitudes, the bike runs richer (so you must jet leaner). The air is less dense at higher altitudes (so you're essentially getting a smaller volume of air than you do near sea level).
At warmer temperatures, the bike runs richer (so you must jet leaner). During the summer, you typically want to use a smaller MJ. During the winter, you may have to go up on the MJ and you may want to raise the jet needle (lower the clip).
At high humidity or when it's wet, the bike also runs richer (so you must jet leaner).
Before you begin. Please check that you have any outside problems that will cause jetting nightmares fixed.
You need a clean airfilter; you need to make sure that the carb boots are tight and not leaking both in and out. You also need to make sure you have no leaks in your exhaust system. If any of these problems exist will through everything off.
So now, We begin. First thing you need to decide. Will you be starting with TG's stock needle recommendation, or will you be running PC's choice of the NCYS needle? From there I can't tell you what to choose. I've used both. I'm still indecisive with what needle I like better. So I can't say what I personally like better. However you need to choose, as it will effect over all jetting. If you’re having problems locating the NCYS needle, You can call Pro Circuit they will be able to give you the Honda part number. If memory serves me right it’s listed in the crf450r parts fiche.
This picture illustrates the areas of throttle movement that are associated with the jetting components
If you chose the stock needle you won’t need to touch it yet. If you chose the ncys needle you need to install it into the carb first. Start with PC’s middle clip position.
Ok, now lets install the pilot and main jet. The pilot jet is generally a 42 pilot its pretty standard but that doesn't mean you're going to use it. The main jet well use PC's start of 170 or TG's start of 175 either or doesn't matter.
Next you need to go buy a few cheap plugs. Cr8e or cr8eb is stock. Before you install a new plug you should see how the bike runs first with your new starting point on the jets. Does it start easier? It should. Keep this in mind also. If you're planning on running race fuel and want to jet to that you need to obviously jet the bike with race fuel in it. Some people because they are putting around and don't want to burn 15dollar a gallon fuel will try and jet to using cheep fuel. This isn't going to get you perfect for when you're running that fuel. Once you're done and want to run the cheep fuel for practice or what ever that will be fine just it won’t be dead on.
Ok, now it starts and runs. Good you need to set your fuel screw for the current jetting ... This is jetting 201. You should already know how to set this. How ever I’m gonna include the how to
Setting the Fuel Screw / Pilot Jet "by Ear"
1. Adjust the idle with the black knob until it is too fast. Then adjust it back down until it is around 1900-2000 RPM or if you don't have a tachometer (see below) until it sounds just a little high.
2. Before you start adjusting, count the turns required to tighten it up lightly.
3. Then start the bike with the slightly elevated idle and turn it out 1/4 turn, 1/2 turn, 3/4 turn and so on until you get to 2 turns. Listen for best RPM and best response to a quick 1/4-turn tweak of the throttle at each position of the fuel screw.
4. Now turn back in 1/4 turn at a time doing the same thing. By now you should have been able to distinguish the speed of the idle and the responsiveness to tweaking the throttle.
5. If it gets better between 3/4 and 3 turns out set it at the best location and leave the rest of the pilot circuit alone.
6. If it is getting better turning it in or is best less than 3/4 turns out, replace the pilot jet with a smaller one and go through this procedure again.
7. If it is getting better as you turn it out or best at more than 3 turns out replace the pilot jet with a larger one and go through this procedure again.
So now you have your starting point YAH. Hey wait isn't this TG and PC specs? Yep. Now you need to figure out your specs.
Your engine should be warm? You now need to install your new plug. Hurry. Don't burn yourself.
Ok, with the new plug in, start the bike and to go to a long hopefully slightly inclined straightaway. Get the bike into the middle of third gear. Then pin it. Holding the throttle wide open until the engine peaks. Don't just ride the rev-limiter? Once it peaks pull in clutch hitting kill switch and let go of the throttle coasting to a stop. Take the bike back to your work area and let it cool. Don't ride it back walk it only. Then remove the spark plug. Now you will read the spark plug. This will allow you to determine how to adjust the main jet. If the plug is sooty/black you're TO rich you need to drop 2 jet sizes down. If its white you're too lean, richen 2 jet size up. If it’s a golden color you're either perfect or close. If you come up with a golden color is it towards the darker or lighter spectrum? Darker you might want try 1 jet leaner. If it’s whiter maybe 1 jet richer. Or you maybe content to stay with that? Remember it maybe possible to get it right on dab smack perfect. If you made any changes you need to run this again with a new plug. If you have a way to clean your plug that'll work also. If you were on the white spectrum [lean] you can reuse that plug again.
Here is a link that is well written and explains plug reading a little better.
http://www.4strokes.com/tech/sparkplg.asp
Ok, you got your main jet correct.. Now we need to adjust the needle. You can do the plug run also but because the needle affects almost all 2/3rds of the entire throttle it's hard to get it accurate. Adjusting the Needle is more a feel adjustment. Needle adjustment is pretty easy. To figure out the needle get on the bike from 1/8th throttle [past idle] to 2/3rds throttle. You need to roll on the throttle listening for popping and response. Try one clip position and then go leaner [moving the clip down] does it pop and feel sluggish. You don't want any backfire and you don't want it to be sluggish. If you run from 1/3rrd throttle to half throttle it should be instant response. This is past the bog of the ac pump because the engine should be high enough in the rams to have enough vacuum. If you have a bog then you're lean. If its sluggish you maybe rich. Search the clip position till you find THE best one.
Ok, You now have your main jet and your needle right. So now you can set your pilot. How ever it's pretty much inevitable that the 42 pilot is close if not correct. There is a chance you may need one more size up. I highly doubt you will need to go lower. So now here is what we do now. One more time adjust your fuel screw correctly. Now going on a straight with an DECLINE or flat all you need to do is open up the throttle go to 50% to 75% open throttle and chop the throttle. If it Pops on decal you're to lean. You can either richen the fuel screw or go up a jet size on the pilot. Congratulations you're done.
By the way people. The incline on the main jet is used to keep a load on the engine i.e. needing more fuel. However you don't want the engine stressed either...
The decline on the pilot is there to once again keep a load on the engine. However these two loads on the incline and decline are different and the incline can't be used on the pilot or the decline used on the main. Remember the fuel screw needs to be adjusted anytime you ride and possibly multiple times a day.
Well, now we have the jetting done. You may or may not have a common issue with bogging. This is a tough issue to address. There has been several posts regarding fixes. The easiest is to replace the leakjet in the bottom of the float bowl with a smaller jet. The lower the number the more fuel that gets squirted into the engine from the accelerator pump. Then there is the option of running an accelerator pump cover. The cover I think is just a gimmick. How ever if you get an accelerator pump cover that has an adjustable leakjet setting should work at least to a degree.
Next is the AP mod. This mod is a wire up of the acell pump-timing rod and basically sets the timing to zero and maximizes the duration of the fuel squirt. This can be done stand alone or with a combination of the cover leakjet/adjustable cover & by changing the accelerator plunger rod. For the people you will need to do a search for Redbeards AP Mod.
On some more issues. There a few companies that have some offerings. ZipTy racing, Tokyo Mods, & Chaplin Kawasaki all have carb mods. The zipty changes the emulsion tube and does the AP mod. With the emulsion tube change will allow the fuel to be atomized into smaller droplets that will allow for better air/fuel mixture allowing better combustion. With the tube and their AP timing will pretty much eliminate bog.
With that being said the carb mod from zipty costs 100 dollars, it also can be done your self. How ever they pretty much do that for a living and to me I’d be happy to spend 100 dollars to get the bog issue and some internal mods from them rather then spend a great deal of time trying to figure out how to clear the bog up. Remember this is not for your basic jetting The above will still need done weather or not you have the carb mod or not.
Good Luck.
Anyone have comments? Please post in the Make/Model forums on whether or not you think I'm right or wrong. Please don't say I'm stupid. I maybe wrong on something.