Ok, thanks ! They sound beasty anyway, and VERY loud. Showing off juring a huuge whip he'd rev the 450 to it's limiter BRRRAAAPAPAPAPA !.. So you prefer Kawis, yes they do have good reputation for strong motors. Like on the Dirtbike USA (I think) they were saying the 09 kx250f was the best 250f motor they had ridden ! Sounds pretty impressive..