South Trail Closures, The Red Menace Invades The Desert

[Travace]

This is a good question Travace... and don't take my post as directed at you please.

But guys this has been going on for years... is well documented... well posted on the largest dirt bike forums... when we yell WTF at this late date we kind of embarrass ourselves. You have to ignore the warnings pretty hard to run into a sign in the desert and then say WTF.

It sucks... it ain't right. But this is NOT NEW INFO ! We dirt bikers as a group just DON'T GET INVOLVED... then we cry when it's all over !

Agent post this same topic over at TT. I gave some advise over there if you wanna do something about it. I don"t feel like retyping. If we wanna just be mad and talk smack thats OK too. You decide whats right for you.

i definitely hear what you are saying and dont think you are directing it at me but i can only speak for myself..... im not an activist so i cant say im 100% involved but when i hear of a issue i help with what i can. i will send those letters to my congress and sign petitions. do i go to meetings .. no... i barely have any time to ride as it is and most of them that are important are well over a 2 hour drive for me. As for this specific issue it just never was brought to my attention or i never did all the research to know about it till i see pics of red stakes and it makes me angry. Sad but it looks like this issue was rolling way before i ever got into this sport or anything that would effect me to know. I think that is key... Knowledge

 

[Jeff aka BOLT]

the WEMO plan was pre-internet so not many people were aware of it. I believe I heard on the net that it was under question now tho and may be overturned and is why there are new public meetings taking place now. It really is just a matter of time tho, due to the country being run by lawyers, media, liberals, EPA, etc.

PRE Internet... are you kidding... this has been widley discused FOREVER ! People just don't LOOK at it if it doesn't sound like a fun thread. This is the exact reason why we will never win the land war. We DON'T HAVE THE CONVICTION of our opinions.

 

[cleonard]

PRE Internet... are you kidding... this has been widley discused FOREVER ! People just don't LOOK at it if it doesn't sound like a fun thread. This is the exact reason why we will never win the land war. We DON'T HAVE THE CONVICTION of our opinions.

Jeff is correct. I'm not sure if I remember the years exactly, but I think that the final WEMO plan was early 2006. Now the Jawbone/Dove plan was done in 87/88 which some would call pre-internet.

 

[Jeff aka BOLT]

Travace it's all out there. But as a group we don't pay attention. I've been on both sides of this fence. 3 years ago I was like WTF IS GOING ON when they took 2 miles of fun trail in Arrowhead. I got pissed and called the Forest Service pissing all over the phone. They gave me a voice mail and I left a pissed message.

The Ranger actually called me back and explained that the public had 2 YEARS to comment... and did not. It was on the Internet at TT and many other places. It was in the newspapers. There were posters all over Big Bear. Many meetings were had and dirt bike clubs like Big Bear Trail Riders and OC Dualies invited. No one showed and commented and 2 years goes by and trails were lost.

The worst part I was screaming at was the DUDE that built the trails in the 80s. He was pissed at US for not helping save the trails HE BUILT !

So I joined that day... I adopted the last piece of single track left in Big Bear 2W01 out of Devils Hole. I also personally SPONSOR the trail. I post work days here and everywhere else. FEW EVER SHOW. The last work day DBA came out. Tim & Gary and others.

It took 2 years but we got grant dollars pushed through to get 20 miles of new DIRT BIKE ONLY trails opened back up near 2W01. This is HUGE. First in 30 years ! Do you know about any of this stuff ? Does anyone ? Cause I have posted here several times and every where else too !

You see we just gloss over these things until we stop and start paying attention. I chose Big Bear cause it's close to me. I can't do more. Gary was working Angeles Forest and has helped me out in Big Bear. Maybe you can look into something down near you so you can feel like what you do matters.

I don't mean to preach and I know I am sounding preachy. I just get VERY surprised when people ride by a trail closure and get surprised when they see a red sign. I can't even take them seriously at this point. I just say whatever and put the bike back in gear and keep going. I was willfully ignorant for 30 years. Now I pay attention. Everyone will too in their own time. Maybe this is a wake up call for a few. Maybe it's just something to rant and rave about for a couple days and then forgotten. We all have to decide for ourselves.

Anyway... good subject... good discussion... and I need to shut it before I become a total drag.

Lets go riding !

 

[Rack]

PRE Internet... are you kidding... this has been widley discused FOREVER ! People just don't LOOK at it if it doesn't sound like a fun thread. This is the exact reason why we will never win the land war. We DON'T HAVE THE CONVICTION of our opinions.

"Pre-Internet" for Mike was not that long ago.

 

[Travace]

Travace it's all out there. But as a group we don't pay attention. I've been on both sides of this fence. 3 years ago I was like WTF IS GOING ON when they took 2 miles of fun trail in Arrowhead. I got pissed and called the Forest Service pissing all over the phone. They gave me a voice mail and I left a pissed message.

The Ranger actually called me back and explained that the public had 2 YEARS to comment... and did not. It was on the Internet at TT and many other places. It was in the newspapers. There were posters all over Big Bear. Many meetings were had and dirt bike clubs like Big Bear Trail Riders and OC Dualies invited. No one showed and commented and 2 years goes by and trails were lost.

The worst part I was screaming at was the DUDE that built the trails in the 80s. He was pissed at US for not helping save the trails HE BUILT !

So I joined that day... I adopted the last piece of single track left in Big Bear 2W01 out of Devils Hole. I also personally SPONSOR the trail. I post work days here and everywhere else. FEW EVER SHOW. The last work day DBA came out. Tim & Gary and others.

It took 2 years but we got grant dollars pushed through to get 20 miles of new DIRT BIKE ONLY trails opened back up near 2W01. This is HUGE. First in 30 years ! Do you know about any of this stuff ? Does anyone ? Cause I have posted here several times and every where else too !

You see we just gloss over these things until we stop and start paying attention. I chose Big Bear cause it's close to me. I can't do more. Gary was working Angeles Forest and has helped me out in Big Bear. Maybe you can look into something down near you so you can feel like what you do matters.

I don't mean to preach and I know I am sounding preachy. I just get VERY surprised when people ride by a trail closure and get surprised when they see a red sign. I can't even take them seriously at this point. I just say whatever and put the bike back in gear and keep going. I was willfully ignorant for 30 years. Now I pay attention. Everyone will too in their own time. Maybe this is a wake up call for a few. Maybe it's just something to rant and rave about for a couple days and then forgotten. We all have to decide for ourselves.

Anyway... good subject... good discussion... and I need to shut it before I become a total drag.

Lets go riding !

i did know about that stuff.. i did not have the time to go help or i would have.

i have looked into stuff closer to me and i was pretty much brushed aside. there is not much of trail system here in SD and the one that there is SD adv riders take care of it. Even so... not everyone has the time or conviction to get hardcore like you are. what you do is awesome but there is a reason why you are a minority. its not easy being an activist. a lot of people spend every moment just trying to get out on a ride let alone fighting for land like you do.

there is some truth to what you say about us as a community but i dont think its that extreme. i truly dont believe that most of us dont care... we do care its just people have lives and prolly hecktick ones... they dont have the time to go scouraging through multiple forums to find the issues to get involved with.... thats why i think your threads and ones like this are good. the JV one thats been keeping me updated with whats going on there is a great thread. i wouldnt have known about that issue if not.

 

[catrailrider]

Pretty soon we'll have to ride hybrid bikes or electric bikes so we don't drip oil on the endangered California dung lizard or some other creature nobody had ever seen

Sent from my HD7 using Board Express

 

[MikeinFresno]

WEMO was 1986 from my memory, and of course talking about it on the net is never ending as any other stuff is, but it happened before we knew it was happening. They just finally decided to implement it. Reagan didnt fund the agencies back in the 80s and they couldnt act then. Alan Cranston got thru a bunch of new wilderness and Reagan back doored them for a few years and then Bush with no funding to implement, enforce, sign, etc. Not to sound like a wise guy, but Im older and been riding longer than most of you and remember these things way back in the 70s when it all started to go bad. BUT who knew then where it would lead...So, Im saying the same ol idea that its "our fault" and "you should have known" isnt reality for me and me perspective.

 

[Jeff aka BOLT]

Travace do you ride Ocotillo a lot ? You could have a voice there pretty easily. They even send you emails to keep folks updated on whats gong on in the planning of the park.

http://www.planocotillowells.com/

I know what you mean Mike. I'm as old as you. But I didn't learn about any of this stuff until the past few years. And it really didn't take much effort on my part to get informed. I just had to read the threads people posted about this kind of stuff instead of passing them by on the way to another ride thread.

It's all out there if people wanna know about it. Red signs don't just pop up out of no where. Usually takes years for them to appear. I am not making a judgement. I rode 30 years before doing a damn thing.

I'm just saying it surprises me... when people act surprised.

 

[Sun]

"Im sorry sir but, Im color blind and dont wear my reading glasses while Im riding. I did not know the sign was red or said anything about closed."

1 out of 20 men and 1 out of 200 women are color blind. And how many of those do you think need reading glasses? A LOT! Im sure of it!

That's my story and Im sticking with it BRAAAP!

 

[Sun]

Good points Jeff. I've done some trail restoration in the past and signed many petitions and have wrote some letters but, that is still not enough. And lately I've been slacking with physical help. I wanted to help up in Big Bear not long ago but, I also didnt want to struggle with a trail that MAY be difficult for me having never been on it before. I didnt want to need help in order to help, and I also would have been showing up alone with no"buddy" to help me either, so I didnt go.

My post above is my smart ass side. Last time I was out at Cal City I was leading a few girls on a ride. I hadnt been out there in a while. I was bummed when we kept running into these signs. I turned us around at all of them. We were coming from Randsburg where we were staying. It seems like there is nothing decent left to ride in that area anymore unless you know it well and ride way out or outlaw.

A sign of the times sigh....

 

[Travace]

Travace do you ride Ocotillo a lot ? You could have a voice there pretty easily. They even send you emails to keep folks updated on whats gong on in the planning of the park.

http://www.planocotillowells.com/

I know what you mean Mike. I'm as old as you. But I didn't learn about any of this stuff until the past few years. And it really didn't take much effort on my part to get informed. I just had to read the threads people posted about this kind of stuff instead of passing them by on the way to another ride thread.

It's all out there if people wanna know about it. Red signs don't just pop up out of no where. Usually takes years for them to appear. I am not making a judgement. I rode 30 years before doing a damn thing.

I'm just saying it surprises me... when people act surprised.

honestly i dont have the time in my life right now to be that person with a voice. i have offered my help with OW and was told to come back during summer months im sorry but fuck that im not going out in 110+ weather to do labor. like i said i would never call myself an activist but when i see things on the forums i read i do what i can like sending emails and in return i get spammed. i never gave my phone number that i have had for 15+ years now out on anything till a couple years ago when i started riding and you guys started bringing things to my attention. i threw caution to the wind and now my shit is spammed and out there. i get calls all the time about shit i dont care about(a lot of surveys) but i dont mind cause just maybe it helped a little.

sorry that in this case i acted surprised when i had not ever heard of this issue and all i see was red stakes... once it was made clear to me i thought about in a different way. Im not arguing your point but dont be surprised when some people are surprised cause they are not as hardcore about issues as you are... it doesnt mean they just dont care.